Episode 14 – Nicole Le Maire, Paymentology
Paymentology is a leading fintech company that specializes in providing innovative payment solutions and technologies. Founded in 2015, Paymentology quickly established itself as a pioneer in the payments industry by combining cutting-edge technology with a deep understanding of the evolving financial landscape.
The company’s core values of customer-centricity, integrity, and innovation have been instrumental in shaping its success. Paymentology’s history is marked by a series of groundbreaking achievements, such as developing a cloud-native platform that enables real-time payment processing and personalized customer experiences.
In a similar fashion, the company prides itself on its unique workforce, made up of talent from more than 60 countries worldwide. The company’s commitment to excellence, coupled with its agile and forward-thinking approach to remote work and global talent acquisition, has positioned Paymentology as a trusted leader in the payments ecosystem, driving its continued success in the industry.
This episode of The Speed to Hire Show features Nicole Le Maire, Head of Global Talent Acquisition at Paymentology.
- [5:54] Leverage community spaces to attract dedicated candidates – be creative with talent sourcing and build relationships in community spaces where talent self-filters into your talent pool.
- [8:12] Harness the power of remote work to enhance your talent acquisition – opening up your talent acquisition strategy to remote roles, expands your talent pool exponentially.
- [12:18] An exclusive look at Paymentology’s hiring process – learn what makes Paymentology’s global talent acquisition strategy so effective.
- [15:01] Balance speed and quality to prevent candidate drop-off – a thorough candidate screening process yields high-quality hires, but the candidate experience determines how many top candidates reach the final offer stage. Finding a balance between the speed and quality of screenings and feedback keeps talent moving through your hiring process.
- [17:53] Establish a cohesive process to streamline global hiring – to ensure consistent high-quality hires across a remote, distributed talent acquisition team, you need to create a structured hiring process and cohesive training model.
- [20:41] Implement comprehensive training to boost hiring manager buy-in – adequately training hiring managers on how to identify top talent, provide timely feedback, and use hiring tools and technology helps to mitigate bottlenecks in the hiring process.
- [25:24] Increase efficiency by involving hiring managers early in recruiting – getting buy-in and feedback from hiring managers early in the hiring process increases the efficiency and effectiveness of candidate evaluations at every stage of the hiring process.
JOSH TOLAN: Alright, Nicole. Well, thanks for joining me today. To get started, tell me a little bit about yourself.
NICOLE LE MAIRE: A little bit about myself. Good question.
So I am currently the head of talent acquisition for Paymatology, a global fintech.
Before that, I owned my own company and worked with many different companies around the world, which I love doing. On a variety of projects from people ops to talent negotiation to kind of international work, first, etcetera.
And I love the international side of things, so that’s probably where you find me most and the remote workspace. Very close and dear to my heart. So that’s kinda who I am as a person. Yeah.
JOSH TOLAN: And what made you make the leap from your own consulting business to working full-time at Paymatology?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Good question. And so I decided after probably a little bit of a negative experience many years ago in the workforce my own business was much better than being employed.
So I went for that and I truly enjoyed it. But what I really miss from the consultancy side is that you implement something or you design something really awesome. You work with great people You can never see it done. You can never see it emerge and kind of fully see what was actually being or at an outcome of something.
And that’s why I decided okay. Well, if I really find a company that really aligns with who I am, my ethics, and my values, then then I can stay a little bit longer.
And that’s why I ended up with the Paymentology.
JOSH TOLAN: And when did you join the company?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: It’s probably about two years ago full-time before that on a consultancy basis.
JOSH TOLAN: Got it. Alright. And tell me a little bit about the business.
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Interesting as well because we’re really kind of moving forward in a very kind of global space. We focus on payment processing for our fintechs, but also digital banks.
And that’s kind of the space that is really exciting for for for many of us. We work around the world. We have Teams twenty-four-seven working kind of following the sun model.
So currently, we have about sixty-eight nationalities in the company. We focus on remote work first. Although we do have hybrids. So we do have three kinds of entities in Johannesburg, Dubai, and London.
But everybody kind of works remotely, and that’s kind of, yeah – who we are as a company and who we want to stay as a company as well.
JOSH TOLAN: That’s incredible. Well, that is truly a global organization if I’ve ever heard of one, sixty-eight different countries, people all over the world. How many employees are there?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: So we have around five hundred team members, and we’re growing slowly but steadily.
JOSH TOLAN: Got it. And tell me about the makeup of your team, what are the different rules on the talent acquisition side?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yeah. So I have seven people currently. We downscaled a little bit.
So we have an international team from Thailand to Kenya to Romania, to Peru. So we’re all over the show. We cover many different regions.
And we have the tech space where we have, like, some hardcore tech recruiters as well as the business frontline space where we have global recruiters, but they could also cover parts of if necessary within the people team and the people ops team.
So that’s kinda how we split up. We’re going more to a generalist kinda model from the TA side. So in case of economic changes, we can actually place people and have them work on other projects as well.
So I think that’s really exciting from our perspective. Over the past, two years with your hardcore skills. We did about probably over a hundred-eighty people and roles across the world. In a variety of ways. And they’re pretty good actually from the tech side. We don’t have too many issues in getting people in.
And we don’t have to work hard, we don’t have to do all these amazing things that you see going on. People just kinda appear to us because we’re very creative in what we do. And I think that’s the creativity part that does kind of work for our team a lot.
You know, if it means digging through the sense, you know, that that works really well for us. So I think from that space. If you look from a LinkedIn hardcore sourcing perspective, yeah, it doesn’t always work out for us, it actually works better for us to really align to our kind of creative ways of either locally, you know, whether that’s in Vietnam, Thailand, or South Africa. Or whether that’s kind of more from a remote space perspective?
JOSH TOLAN: Interesting. So tell me a little bit more about what are you guys doing on the creative side to attract those local candidates.
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yeah. So a lot of the community spaces work very well for us. So whether that’s kind of a Slack community group or whether that’s like a meetup or whether that’s specific, like, startup spaces, those really work well for us.
In the referral space as well, we always need payments professionals They’re not that many across the world. So it’s already a small community you’re hitting. So that works well for us as well.
I think some of the traditional parts as well, like hardcore job boards in particular countries, and we know now which job boards work and which don’t And they actually really work for us. We don’t have to do a lot of hard work for that. And what we’ve noticed as well is it’s a little bit about the philosophy from a company that you take as well. Right?
So do you take the hardcore sourcing route or do you actually want people to really work for you as a company? And to be honest, from a dermatology perspective, we really notice that you know, applications, direct applications work a lot better. You know, those team members or new hires, David, does a lot longer than actually source candidates. So I think that’s also really important that aligns with our Canada creative space in the way we work in and direct ourselves.
JOSH TOLAN: Yep. That makes a lot of sense. I think companies are seeing that on the go-to-market side as well as it’s not all about now that cold prospecting, and sourcing, and reaching out to folks, and you obviously have to have some of that motion stood up within the business.
But it’s more about how can we pull people into our orbit, how do we put content out there and how do we engage in communities, to get candidates engaged in our process and applying to our jobs and raising their hand that they want to work here versus, you know, having to pull people cold and more or less sell them, unwilling to work for the business. So that’s definitely a theme that I feel like I’ve seen with a lot of folks in the talent acquisition space, so great that you guys are ahead of the curve there.
I saw that you guys were recently rated as one of the top one hundred remote employers, which as you mentioned is something that you and the company seem very passionate about. Curious to know, what types of challenges you know, that presents for you, but also what advantages that presents for you from a recruiting perspective?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yeah. I think from the business perspective is, of course, is the time zone difference. Right? So if I’m a team lead, and I have seven or twelve different team members in three or four different time zones. That means that you do have to be flexible. You can’t do a nine-to-five.
And that sometimes doesn’t align to, you know, people’s personal kind of spaces and boundaries. So that’s one of the things that we do have to be careful from a remote, you know, remote work perspective I think from a TA perspective, it just opens up the world in terms of, you know, the world is your oyster in terms of talent.
So where do you want to actually, you know, get the talent from? And I’m not always talking about kinda you know, geographical compensation part, but it’s like certain countries are very, very good for certain tech skills. You know, and you can hit those countries a lot better with remote work than you can actually with, you know, local sources. So that kinda is our our our game, and we’re very kinda good at that game in terms of looking at local talent.
So, you know, one of the insights now is, we’re looking into a lot of, like, Turkey – Turkey is a very interesting country now in terms of great talent.
Does everybody look into a country like Turkey? Probably not. Right? Maybe Latvia, you know, Brazil is very good in the tech space, but the US has now also seen that. So for us, the talent tries up a little bit and we look for maybe somewhere in Ecuador.
So I think the world becomes a playground in terms of where you get the talent, and also the diversity from a value perspective. You learn so much from one another course, there are challenges as well. Everybody comes from a very different cultural background.
And that doesn’t always mean the country, but the culture one brings from home as well. And that’s probably sometimes where you do see some of the challenges within an internal work workforce.
But I think the way we’ve worked, that’s how we got into where we are very case, so it’s not new to us, and it was also not new to us when the pandemic hit. Only our three office locations would have had to go remote, but everybody else was already remote. So it’s very easy to adapt to that then.
JOSH TOLAN: That’s great. So that gives you a leg up over a lot of companies, I mean, even like us that went remote first during the pandemic, and we were previously all in one office.
Everybody there, everybody lives in the same area, nine to five in the office, and then immediately had to switch. So I’m sure that was somewhat of a competitive advantage for you guys operationally within the business, but also from a recruiting standpoint, you know, to be able to tell candidates that this is how you’ve been running things.
For years, it gives them comfort in that you can run an organization that way. But also, I think, you know, at some point in the pandemic when folks were joining companies that were remote because of the pandemic. It’s like, well, what’s the culture and what’s the environment gonna be like after the pandemic? But for you guys, you know, global, distributed, remote team, was just ingrained in your culture from the start. So, that’s awesome.
I saw it on your careers page, which I thought was great, and I always encourage everybody to give an outline of the hiring process in the general steps so a candidate knows what to expect before they even apply.
But can you take me through what those steps look like, I understand it could be different you know, across different roles. But generally, what does the hiring process look like at Paymentology?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yeah. So so interesting. It’s a little bit different for each role, but overall, we have a particular kind of workflow that we work with. So we would have kind of the applications come in. Right?
Then one of the recruiters whether in the business frontline team or the tech team – they would have their first interview.
At that time, we would also actually send a personality profile adapted for Paymentology, a lot aligned to kinda failure-based recruitment.
Then we would move on to a hiring manager or technical interview. And there might be another stage in between depending on if a team actually wants to meet the person first.
But then we would always have and we probably a little bit specific in that, we would always have a project.
So we use a particular software to use Candy Tech for that. And everybody actually does a project So that project is usually between two and four hours of work. We do actually give a gift card for that. So I do want to say, people do receive something for their hard work.
And in that project, it could be very specific to the role. It could be, you know, building a presentation or doing some hardcore coding.
It could be very creative. It might have a video question in that as well.
And then we would move on to a project presentation, and there will always be two or three team members in the project presentation.
And it’s a very informal conversation about their project whether they present something or they work through their code. And from there on, we go straight into a kind of offer. So it is quite a lengthy process, and we’re very aware of that.
But it really works for us, and that’s why we keep it. But we’re also very respectful of the candidate’s time and effort as well. So we always try to follow up with actual feedback or as soon as they’ve done a little bit more work on the project presentation as well as the project kind of review stages.
Yeah. So that’s kinda our workflow at the moment. I mean, adapt it as we as we go along really.
JOSH TOLAN: Sure. Yeah. I mean, definitely very thorough. It sounds like you’re really evaluating candidates from all angles.
You got the behavioral personality side. You’ve got the skill side, you’ve got, you know, live interviews with hiring managers, maybe it’s a technical interview. So you’re definitely getting a full picture of the candidate and their qualifications for the role. So I imagine quality ends up being really high.
But with such a thorough process, how do you ensure, like, with all these different steps that you’re still moving along at a pace that allows you to make sure that you know, candidates aren’t getting, you know, swooped up by another employer before you’re able to run to the end of your process?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: And that’s a challenge. Right? And for certain roles, we do have whereby the percentages are a lot higher in terms of drop-off rates and drop-off rates in terms of they receive a different offer.
We don’t have people dropping out of the process, which is really amazing, actually.
But I think that’s our effort on the candidate experience side. We really want to buy and we, you know, we really value who they are as people.
But we do have people who drop off and mainly because of the office space. And I would say probably more on the specialist high-tech side where we would have some of them. But we have such a number coming in already as well that we’re actually covered by by by having this process.
Now we would have a kind of a brain drain in terms of candidates who are just not available in certain places again. We would need to adapt. And we’re very flexible, and our ATS also allows us to adapt very closely to that.
But in the case of that adaptation, that’s also a conversation we would have with the hiring team. You know, are you you know, do you actually want that extra team interviewer can we cut it out, please? Because we’re gonna lose people otherwise. So it’s a close collaboration with the hiring teams as well.
JOSH TOLAN: Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, there has to be a balance, right? If you’ve got a full pipeline, you have a ton of candidates come through and you want to run a really thorough process to ensure quality is there at the end, you know, you’re probably okay with some drop off from candidates that are going to other employers along the way because you have such a high number of candidates coming in in the beginning.
But as you said, as a talent acquisition team, you have to be adaptable and you have to work with your hiring managers because of the pipeline, or the pipeline for every job is not going to be the same.
And so if you’re seeing a smaller number of candidates, you know, you have to find that balance between speed and quality to make sure that at the end of the day, you find a really, really solid hire, but you find a hire nonetheless because the business needs that person in order to accomplish what it’s aiming to accomplish. So, it’s great that you guys have that flexibility and adaptability built into your process. Now, you’ve got you know, seven people on the talent acquisition team. You’ve got five hundred people in the company.
You’re spread across sixty-eight countries. I imagine your TA team is supporting a wide variety of hiring managers, how do you keep everyone on the same page so that process can flow smoothly?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Very good. And one of the challenges we face, especially the timezone element, right, that comes with hiring managers all across.
I think we’re at a stage now that we have a lot more buy-in with the hiring teams. It has taken some time to create that. But each recruiter really works together and has ownership and accountability for working with those hiring teams. And I think that’s probably also a little bit of the changes that we’ve made over the over the past two years in terms of where we where it may have come into me first, but now actually crews just have their own space and they can create and work with those hiring teams.
It’s a challenge as well in terms of, okay, how how do we keep everybody, you know, on the same space. I think a lot of it is also with hiring team training.
We do quite a number of trainings. And we actually have a full schedule going on from September onwards where we have more and more people coming in, team members coming in into our talent space and doing a lot of different trainings from different, you know, like, interview scaling, advanced interview scaling, non-bias training, neurodiversity training. So we really go hitting it now. And by doing that, we really also get their buying, but also the collaborative spirit.
Right? So they know what they want in their teams there. They’re first, but please, you know, work with us because we’re not that expert. And I think that’s also knowing where, you know, your skills, your strengths stop and where somebody else’s strengths start and and and kinda combining that.
I think that’s probably what we’re getting better and better at. But is it a challenge, just, it is. Yeah.
JOSH TOLAN: For sure. I mean, I can only imagine especially in just such a distributed environment like you said with the time zones of just being on the same page about where you’re at in the hiring process and did this person do what they need to do, and are things moving along?
What does this person think about the candidate? That’s a challenge in just you know, a normal talent acquisition environment, but, you know, I’d say you guys have a rather complex one just because of the global organization that you’re supporting So really impressive that you’re able to keep everyone on the same page in that way. Do you find that the trainings that you guys are running gets hiring managers more bought into the process and to working with your recruitment team?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yes.
Especially so, for example, we’re very specific. Nobody can come into our ATS without one-and-a-half-hour training. And that’s a lot of it on the hiring team. But in some hiring teams, we actually have, you know, the engineering team.
We have about fifty people as part of actually are hiring team. So that means fifty people have gone through one-and-a-half-hour of training. But what that allows for is a very quick based through in terms of what we need to get, you know, get done. So everybody has their kinda task and that kinda helps push candidates through the pipeline very quickly.
Those trainings really, really help and solidify what kind of what we want from a company perspective. And also gives us a lot more direction and collaboration with everyone. And also feedback. Right?
It’s not always, you know, on us, you know, we can provide, you know, get feedback as well and really help push our side forward because we can learn and and and develop and and and get better things as well.
JOSH TOLAN: I love it. Yeah. I mean, I think it almost sounds like you’ve got – the training is like a mini hiring certification program. Right?
It’s like, we can’t help you hire. You can’t be in the ATS until we make sure we’re on the same page and we have the same you’re bought into the philosophy in the way we go about things. That way, once we do have to hire for a role for you, we can run. We can sprint into that process full steam ahead versus having to manage the hiring manager on, you know, almost on like training wheels.
Right? I’m like riding a bike. And I think that’s the difference when you preload this information to hiring managers to back to hiking analogy, you get them to be able to ride the bike when the hiring process starts versus riding a tricycle, and it’s like the recruiter has to nudge that person the way and kinda manage expectations along the way. So I’m sure, you know, you see that play out and just the performance of the hiring process as a result of that training.
NICOLE LE MAIRE: It is. And everybody’s, you know, aligned in their standardization, also from a legal perspective. Right? So, that’s really where that’s our next step.
Really okay? How are we aligned from the compliance, and the legal side? And this really helps that as well because not every country has the same compliance needs.
So a recruiter from a certain country may see certain things culturally very differently than a recruiter from another country, and the hiring manager is the same. So it’s okay, you know, with kind of standardization across, okay, this is what we actually do as a team, and this is our kind of philosophy.
We will not allow anybody in unless they have had training. That really ticks off a lot of these boxes as well. But also, again, is that collaboration is – they meet the team. They know who we are, and we’re not kinda strangers to them.
So I think that that’s… yeah. That’s kinda what really works for us. But it’s a lot of effort and commitment on everybody’s part for sure, right? I mean, there’s a lot of people that you’re not only training, but you’re cornering the training for, making sure it’s getting done, answering any questions, all of the above.
But I think by doing that, one, you’re setting the expectation with hiring managers that, hey, the hiring process is gonna be a collaborative process, and we need and want you as part of that process. Therefore, we are highly invested in your upscaling as a hiring manager and your success as a hiring manager to hire the people that you need for your team.
So I feel like by doing that training upfront versus, you know, I think a lot of teams just do it kind of randomly either throughout the year or they try and bacon into, like, the hiring manager kickoff meeting where they try and level set and get the hiring manager up to speed.
By doing it upfront, you’ve already set the bar and you’ve already laid the foundation. So once we go into hiring for a role, once a rec has been approved, we just started moving. And everybody, you know, the expectations have already been set. Yeah.
So the next step is to have this actually as part the onboarding kind of the onboarding process. So if somebody’s highlighted as a hiring manager or hiring team member that they actually have this part of Canada onboarding. So that’s kind of the next step of what we’re doing at the moment.
JOSH TOLAN: That’s great to hear. How do you think – I know you mentioned the team is a little bit leaner than it has been in the past, and I that’s commonplace right now across talent acquisition teams all across the industry.
As teams are getting leaner, they’re getting more efficient, and they’re, to your point, focusing more on upskilling everybody to be more generalist and specialist.
So you can cover more ground with a leaner team. How do you think that plays into the amount you need to invest in hiring managers to make them an extension of your team, right? As a leaner team, naturally, you might feel a little bit more on a resource or, you know, not have as much capacity as you used to have.
And therefore, I could see it being really important to bring hiring managers, like, you need them to be part of the process to accomplish all the things that you want. Do you see it in a similar way?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yes. I do. I think I’ve listened to some of the other awesome podcasts you have. And in terms of they take the hiring manager on the journey rights and the hiring teams.
I think it’s a challenge in terms of the pressure that’s on the business in terms of just pushing the direction for it, but also being still accountable for recruitment as a hiring manager and a hiring team. I think sometimes that’s difficult to balance. And I think that’s probably something we’re looking at in the future a lot more.
You know, I have here some great stories about kind of hiring team members that are really, really part of the hardcore recruitment cycle. With us, they are.
But it’s, once they kinda are in the process, in the workflow, is not yet the preside. Okay? We have now records. Let’s get everybody on board from the hiring manager side or hiring team side.
It’s really once we already get going. That’s kind of the next step is, okay, let’s get the hiring teams involved earlier on and be very creative about that as well. But, again, we’re working with different time zones. So sometimes that means that if we do these things, we do have to hear different kinds of different sessions if we would have kind of sessions about these things.
So… but definitely the kind of, in the scope for 2024. And of course, there’s more and more interest as well from the hiring managers. We’ve seen a real shift in terms of how far they are in the process. So it’s also coming from them now.
And I think that’s the cool thing. You know, they’re saying and they’re giving us a lot more feedback about okay, why this candidate may not be so much aligned to the role at the moment but could be in the future so the talent pool pipeline is actually huge now and all because of that kind of feedback from the hiring manager. So that’s probably a little bit of a different thing that we are doing to maybe some other organizations.
So for example, last week had two roles open. They are already filled by people from in the talent pool, candidates from within the talent pool, so we don’t really have to do anything.
Just send out the offer and here they go. But that’s because that kinda collaboration with the hiring manager is a lot quicker.
JOSH TOLAN: That’s amazing. What do you think is and maybe one of the causes for that shift in hiring managers wanting more involvement in the process and wanting to be involved earlier in the process?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: I think more say in terms of the people that come through, maybe more understanding of the people they require from a competency perspective.
And that’s probably also aligned with what we see in the market. Right? I think, you know if I look at my team and know a lot better what I need now, maybe then to what I needed a year ago. And I think that’s the shift, I think, we all see in our teams and our companies.
And that really helps build those talent pools. Right? When we can tag them, hey, this is a Java engineer or this is a great, you know, account manager.
And we can come back to these candidates very quickly then. So, yes, it saves a lot of time and effort at the moment. So it’s pretty cool.
JOSH TOLAN: Interesting. So it sounds like hiring managers are starting to understand some of the best practices, like you said, tagging certain candidates that maybe didn’t make it through this time but would be a great fit when we have a future opening. And having them aware of those things and consciously into tagging and doing those certain things that help build a talent pool is really what’s leading to not only better results and by then seeing those better results gets them, you know, further bought into the process like a cycle.
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yeah. And that they are also more aware of you know, this might not be my team, but I know, you know, there’s an opening coming up in number two or number team three team.
Hey. Why don’t we push this candidate into that role? And again, you know, yesterday, we filled the role by just doing that by switching from one kind of role to another and filling a role for September. So so I think that’s what we are starting to see, but I think they like this as well.
Right? This is you know, it helps, it is helpful for them, but they can also feel that they are helping the candidates with this as well, and that’s pretty cool.
JOSH TOLAN: Yeah, that’s great.
And I think that’s a sign that they truly are becoming an extension of the talent acquisition team. When they start to think about hiring in building the organization more holistically versus like, as a hiring manager, I’ve got tunnel vision on for the role I need to fill, and that’s all that matters. But it is start tagging candidates for the future. They start pushing candidates over here because it might be a fit for this team that they know is gonna need to hire.
That’s kinda like them serving as additional recruiters on the team. So, it sounds like because of the buy-in that you’ve got, you start to have a company that is thinking about hiring all the time versus hiring managers only thinking about it when they have a role to fill.
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yeah. And that allows us as well to get even better quality candidates, right?
Because hiring to see, okay. Actually, this, you know, has such specialized skills. It could be really, really good for us in the future. And I think that that’s also you so you see it’s almost worth it for the planning side, which we’re looking at in 2024 — is you can see that happening with the hiring team.
So I think that does present an interesting shift as well and it really helps us. But I think also a lot of the hiring teams understand the pressure on us as well and they’re just wanting to help. They’re wanting to help us, they’re wanting to help themselves, and they’re wanting to help candidates. And I think that that’s probably very different from maybe a couple of years ago.
Maybe this is a pandemic thing that just kinda switched everybody on. I don’t know. I think it’s a different mindset that we’re seeing now than in previous years.
JOSH TOLAN: It’s amazing. So you’ve mentioned 2024 in the future a couple of times throughout this. Curious about what’s on your mind? What are the big goals for you and the team looking ahead?
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Yes. Interesting.
So there’s definitely slow scaling within our company. And when I slow scaling, rather than I mean, it’s really, really focused on quality. So the skill sets are the competencies that we need for the organization in the future. Not so much what we currently need. It’s really future-focused.
And we’re looking to implement workforce planning from a hardcore perspective in terms of linking to the financial cost of the business, the budgets, etcetera.
But really thinking also what do we do from hiring? Because is also what we do internally a retainment perspective and a succession perspective. So that’s really our focus for definitely the first half of 2024. And we’re slowly kind of preparing for that, and a lot of the projects we’re working on as a team are actually focused around work for planning.
JOSH TOLAN: Great. Well, thanks so much for sharing. I love hearing about all the things that you guys are up to, and I really appreciate you coming on.
NICOLE LE MAIRE: Awesome. Thanks so much.