Josh TolanEpisode 16 – Debby Clement, Pax8
Pax8 is an innovative cloud technology company that provides enterprise-level services and solutions to businesses of all sizes. The company has experienced rapid growth since its inception in 2012 through a series of carefully calculated mergers and acquisitions. Its accelerated expansion has required a unique approach to scaling talent acquisition processes.
Today, the company provides a comprehensive suite of cloud products and services including software-as-a-service (SaaS), platform-as-a-service (PaaS), and infrastructure-as-a-service (IaaS) offerings. With its world-class customer service, Pax8 helps customers make the transition to the cloud quickly, efficiently, and cost-effectively.
Its human-centric approach to service parallels Pax8’s unmatched candidate experience. This episode of The Speed to Hire Show features Debby Clement, VP of talent at Pax 8.
Key Takeaways
- [2:37] Clearly define the talent acquisition process to strengthen alignment – mapping the full talent acquisition process ensures there is a clear understanding of expectations and steps from every stakeholder
- [6:38] Break out the full recruitment life cycle into clear actionable steps – breaking down the full recruitment process into incremental steps makes it clear who is accountable for each action, mitigating bottlenecks
- [8:45] Get hiring manager buy-in by reinforcing ownership of building a community – getting buy-in from managers ensures everyone takes accountability for contributing to the bigger picture in the hiring process
- [11:25] Continuously train hiring managers by revisiting best practices – repetition ensures everyone stays fresh and aligned on expectations
- [16:19] Improve your hiring process by tackling any of these 160 points of failure – there are dozens of steps and touchpoints in the talent acquisition process mistakes could be made but auditing your process and consistently striving to improve ensures you achieve a smooth hiring experience for everyone
- [25:53] Take a high-empathy approach to your hiring process – building a human-centric hiring process ensures a positive experience for candidates meaning more talent in your pipeline and a higher offer acceptance rate
Video Transcript
JOSH TOLAN: Alright. Well, let’s jump into it then, Debbie. Tell me a little bit about yourself.
DEBBY CLEMENT: Oh, so DebbyClement. I am, I have a big title, but I’m quite actually quite a small person, VP of talent for EMEA, which is Europe right now. Not really Middle East or Africa yet, but it’s probably on the cards on the M and A team.
But, yeah, that’s, that’s me. And I look I have a team of, oh, golly, what we now four almost gonna become five in the talent team and a wider team of around about twenty in people operations covering the whole of Europe. And talent enablement and development as well as total rewards.
JOSH TOLAN: Very cool. And tell me a little bit about Pax8. So Pax8 is a cloud marketplace platform.
So if you think in terms of what Amazon does, where you buy a washing powder, we do the same thing as Amazon, but we’re all about cloud and software products. And we also do some services as well. So, that is our model. We’re a technology company that distributes cloud software products.
JOSH TOLAN: Got it. And how big is the company now?
DEBBY CLEMENT: So we are eighteen hundred people worldwide, about eight hundred people in a now, or maybe touching a thousand now. And in Europe, we are almost at four hundred.
And two years ago, we were while we started in a tiny office in Bristol in the UK with about thirty people, and some global assignees from the US.
And since that time, we’ve had three, four. Are we on a fourth merger and acquisition of small companies? But have been recruiting all the way through as well as integrating the smaller, the smaller mergers. Really interesting model. The Founders of all of those acquisitions are still within the business. I think that’s what makes us quite unique, and that’s part of our people-centric DNA. Is that all the Founders are still with the business.
And the matching that went on during that merger and acquisition process around culture and values was a really neat, neat fit there as well. They look as they look to that as much as the product that’s that they’re acquiring or the services that are acquiring or the customer base that they’re acquiring. Really look for that customer-centric human-centric match, and that’s been I think that’s been our real strength that’s carried our growth.
JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. That will, first of all, that’s very impressive growth. And I have to imagine that a lot of M and A in such a short period of time, like you said, merging all the people and the cultures is definitely a challenge. How is that played out in your role specifically on the talent acquisition side?
DEBBY CLEMENT: Really interesting when you knit together a bunch of hiring managers, who to all intents and purposes have come from an SME and all recruit in kind of different ways. And our talent acquisition process is very defined.
I think I’m known as the drill sergeant internally because we built it – it was built literally when we were twelve people, when our business was twelve people, and we’ve actually managed to scale it, to where we are in EMEA out four hundred.
And I think the hardest part of an in-house talent person’s role is always getting your hiring managers engaged and your talent partners collaborating effectively.
I mean, we’ve done that around the system that we use, we’re currently on Comeet. We also use Greenhouse in the US.
But that’s, the secret to everyone’s collaboration is how we’ve built the processes. And we started those built the processes from the outside in. So we looked at it from a candidate experience perspective and then built everything internally around that. And that’s stood us in real good stead. It’s been challenging scaling that and automating the HRIS system that comes on board.
The total rewards connect action that comes into play when you hit a certain size as well, really challenging there, but we’re getting there. We’re getting there.
JOSH TOLAN: Interesting. And so when you guys are acquiring these companies, I’m assuming some of them, maybe if not all of them already have an ATS or an HRIS, some tools in place that then you need to bring them on to your systems. Is that part of your role as well?
DEBBY CLEMENT: Yeah. It’s interesting because four that we’ve acquired only one of them had an ATS, and that was really an HR system that had a little bit of a screwy ATS on the back of it. It’s it’s never a purpose-built one. Is it when it’s an HR system?
So, there wasn’t too much to unpick on that, and we’d basically, you know, move, moved everything over to our system. And then with the other three, it still amazes me about SMEs out there today. As many of them are still on the old spreadsheet basis, and it’s like “Wow!” People have systems for putting, you know, milk in the fridge and beer in cookies in the jar.
They have a system for reordering that. But when it comes to their recruitment processes, there’s, there’s no system. Everything is disconnected. And my favorite word, discombobulated practices and activities everywhere. And no one really thinks end to end. Okay. That interview, how does that go through from the talent partner to the hiring manager?
How does he put icing on the cake in terms of deep qualification skills? How does that pop out into the candidate experience? What is the candidate feeling? What do we want them to feel at that stage? It’s all of this need around every single activity, and, and, basically, so many companies, it just kind of grows and morphs into an ugly baby, isn’t it? And, rarely do you get that opportunity to start from a greenfield and go right?
It’s the eleven-star Airbnb experience. What do we want the recruitment experience to look like? And that’s how we started ours, really.
JOSH TOLAN: I think that’s great that when you bring these companies on, in some ways, it’s in some ways, it’s a bad thing. Obviously, they don’t have an ATS or a lot of structure around the recruiting. But in some ways, it’s also a really good thing because you have a clean slate to work from. And, you know, it probably makes it a little bit easier for you to integrate them into the exist systems and structure that you’ve already stood up.
One of the things you mentioned was a challenge, obviously, that all talent acquisition teams face in bringing all their hiring managers, together with the talent acquisition team and everybody getting on the same page and working together – and that’s especially a challenge when you acquire a company and you bring new hiring managers essentially into a brand new company for them.
What have you done or what is your approach when you’re bringing on a new company like that via M and A to really get those hiring managers bought into the way that you guys hire internally?
DEBBY CLEMENT: So I can give you the ideal version and then the reality of what actually happens.
So the ideal version is, before they’re even allowed to touch the system, it’s like, let us tell you how it works. Here’s how it’s built. Did you know there’s a hundred and sixty different points of failure in the hiring system? And if you think about the kind of people that we’re we’re we’re kind of acquiring.
Most of them are kind of engineering mindsets – so we try and say, okay. We know that you’re in you’re an engineer in your job. So your job is to lift up the hood and understand what’s going on underneath the hood. So we try and take that approach with them. And we say, right. Here’s how we’ve built the recruitment process. A hundred and sixty different points of failure.
We’ve exploded those. We year to analyze them. We broke them all down. We grouped them into five key areas. The profile, the process, the control, the brand, and the land.
And we have built our processes around inoculating every single step. So our, we call it a Racy our entire recruitment process, we’ve got fifty-three separate work streams that go right away from here’s a hiring req to his the ninety-day hiring survey quality of hire survey that goes out to hiring managers.
So it’s fifty-three stages, and each of those stages has its own separate work stream. So they get an appreciation for, whoa, there’s a lot of stuff that can go wrong in there. And we tell them a story around, you’re not just hiring to the job description. Here’s the tools that we’re working with. Here’s our interview jotter that all of our talent acquisition partners use. This is the format These are the interview notes that you get for every single person. This is the information that you should expect to see for every single person.
And we’re not just hiring for the job description. We are hiring the whole person because what we are building internally in our company is a community. We’re not just finding employees. We’re building a community and that community is the sticky glue that’s gonna keep people with us when we hit those peaks and troughs of growing a company.
And it’s those sticky relationships that really help that collaboration around the business.
And that’s all the stuff that is baked into our recruitment process. And when you take them under the hood and get them to appreciate that and also connect it.
Their hiring success, is or their success is kind of directly downstream of their hiring success when you make that personal connection to what they’re doing in terms of hiring a person, then you find you get deeper, deeper engagement, but it’s still for all of our hiring managers, I mean, probably seventy percent of them are in their first management role of their career. So then they don’t have a huge amount of hiring experience. So it’s a massive lift for them.
And giving them that confidence and giving them that partnership and letting them know you’re not on your own.
And when mutually accountable for this, it’s not the talent partner’s job to hire great people. It’s everyone’s job to hire great people. Getting that message across is super, super important. And hopefully, we got. We get no off-platform hires. Every piece of activity that we do is on our ATS. There’s no CDs and inboxes.
It all goes through our ATS. I’m particularly proud of that. I’m particularly proud of the talent team and the hiring managers that we work with that they actually adopt the processes.
Stop perfect. Never is.
JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. No. It sounds like you guys are doing a great job. Yeah. For sure. And, I mean, it sounds like you guys are doing an amazing job.
And I think you bring up another important point, which is for managers that are maybe first-time managers and first-time hiring managers and going through the process One of the things that it takes to get good at anything is repetition. Right? You need to do this. You need to follow the process and do it over and over again.
And then it becomes somewhat of, like, you know, muscle memory. Right? Where you know exactly everything that needs to be done. But the challenge, a lot of times, with first-time hiring managers is because they’re not on the talent acquisition team.
They might get one repetition now, but they might not be hiring for their team and for another nine months. So in some ways, you have to have this, like, consistent reinforcement to best practices with the team, because there are so many there could be such, you know, large gaps in between when they’re getting those reps.
DEBBY CLEMENT: Yeah. And I think, because we are consistently using, you know, the interview jotter that we use, so they get used to looking at certain.
Okay. What’s this What’s this person’s hobbies?
How do they learn? Because Pax8 DNA is curiosity, and learning velocity is super, super important to us. So we have, you know, drills, question drills around those areas that the hiring managers get used to picking up.
So that’s that’s really, really, really powerful.
I’m just trying to think of the other thing, the interview scorecard for example. It sounds really boring and really HR-y, doesn’t it the interview scorecard?
But when you’re doing your intake brief, with your hiring manager, it’s like, okay. Let me make this simple for you. By the end of your interview, you will have read my note You’d have had your interview with the candidate. Now I’m gonna give you a checklist to go through of what did you find?
Did you find this? Did you find that? Did you find the other? And oh, it’s a star rating.
It’s not a Caesar up thumb or down thumb. And at the end of that, it pops out a little number that says this is a 4.6 or this is a 3.6. 3.6 is not really good enough for us. We got we gotta have 4.6 or above.
And there’s those little drills and, support tools that give them the muscle practice around. Okay. I need to be looking at the seven major buckets of qualifying areas for this person. And, then, yeah, it’s I think I think it works well, but, we’re still gonna make improvements.
JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. Well, you know, it sets them up for her. So success, and it gives them a sense of purpose when they go into an interview. I think without some of that structure, when it’s time for a hiring manager interview, a lot of times, what you’ll find at companies is they’re putting together the questions they wanna ask an hour before the meeting and they don’t really have, you know, evaluation criteria that they’re specifically looking for throughout the interview and filling out afterward.
And then what you end up with is when you get back together as a committee with the hiring managers or the panel that didn’t know, an interviewer multiple rounds of interviews. Nobody can make a decision. And that’s because there was no structure going into the process of, well, what are we actually looking for and what are we asking look for those things, and then how are we evaluating candidates and what does, you know, good or bad or pass or fail or whatever you call it look like?
And so that’s where you end up in this place of ambiguity where nobody can make a decision and then it just drags out the hiring process or you lose candidates because you can’t get an offer out what you really should have.
DEBBY CLEMENT: I think on, our talent partners, I think, are so service-centric, and hiring it hiring manager experienced focus around. Let’s make it easy for them. Their time – that they never have enough time.
But if we pre-bake in the interview questions that we know they’ll need based on the competencies that we got in our job description – And now we’ve got things like AI to help us.
It’s like, okay. Here’s the job description. Here’s the intake brief notes. Give me a selection of questions that I should ask for this role. And boy, that’s so powerful now because you can just cut and paste and pop those in there. And that’s for a hiring manager that’s doesn’t have time to just even think about it until fifteen minutes before the interview. That’s that’s a real help for them.
And I have that phrase. My goodness. T minus two to interview, don’t make that mistake hiring managers because that’s just bad, bad practice.
They’re all really, really good. Our guys. I know I know I am the world’s biggest nag on there, but they also know that if you don’t do your evaluation post-interview, within the fifteen minutes, and I am on your tail the next day. And if we’re chasing and you wanna put an offer out, we ain’t doing that offer until you’ve done your evaluation.
So we’re pretty, we’re pretty militant in our team, I think. Very good nature.
JOSH TOLAN: Well, that’s what’s needed. Right? You need that in order to scale a hiring process and, you know, to keep everything running smoothly. And then, you know, over time, you hope that hiring managers learn that that, hey, if I don’t get this done in fifteen minutes, someone’s gonna come knocking on my door, to do it. And so then they just start getting it done, autonomously.
So you need you need to build in that rigor. So I can appreciate that. Now I just wanna jump back to one thing real quick you mentioned, which I thought was really interesting. Because I’ve never heard of this before.
You mentioned something like there are a hundred and sixty points of failure in the hiring process, and you guys actually went through the work of mapping out what all of those points of failures are. Can you give me a little bit more insight on that?
DEBBY CLEMENT: Yeah. So, I actually did this piece of work when I was on a sabbatical, before four I joined Pax8, and then I built the, okay, the ideal processing.
And this was really borne out of – I cut my teeth in agency, so I felt the pain of losing a fifteen or forty thousand pound fee when something went wrong.
And during my spascore, I was working for a well conservation charity, and we were looking at how hard volunteers would work, for nothing, for no payment at all. And I was scratching my head going how do we get people to work for free and yet we get people, we pay them, you know, a sum of money and yet the hiring goes wrong.
So I literally took out a whole book of post-it notes and wrote down every single thing that went wrong in recruitment that I could remember over twenty-five years of, both agency and in-house practice.
And I looked at them all on the wall, and it was, oh my goodness.
I stopped counting at a hundred and fifty because I was like, okay, I’ve got enough. I don’t need any more. It’s really painful. It hurts just looking at all those mistakes that I’ve made over the years.
And then I group them. And that’s where our kind of process arch came from. The things that went off went wrong you know, sixty percent of the upfront work that you do to go to market with a job description, that’s where your most of your failure points come from, you know, poor intake briefs, poor job descriptions.
Hiring managers don’t know what they’re looking for. You don’t know how the role is measured. So many of those kind of areas. You haven’t got the right job boards lined up. You don’t know which job boards to use, all of those things, and then the process. Okay.
You don’t have an interview room. You haven’t you haven’t got an ATS to support where people are in the process, all of that. So literally maps that holding out and grouped them. And then we started to rebuild the process into an ATS against right. What do we do at this phase to make sure that a candidate doesn’t withdraw in the process, after offer, for example? And it was all on how do we bring them to the point of white heat?
How do we take the pain early and qualify them out where they’re not meeting the criteria?
What templates do we use? What do we send them at applicant stage. What do we send them before interview?
What do we say to them in the interview? How many interviews do we do? All of that kind of stuff was mapped to the ‘nth degree and then built into the applicant tracking system. And that’s how we came up with what we do today.
JOSH TOLAN: That’s amazing. Was there anything that stood out or stands out to when you break this down for other people Was there anything where people have like an uh-huh moment where they’re like, oh, I never thought of that as a point of failure? Is there anything that stands on your mind?
DEBBY CLEMENT: Oh, There’s a lot. I guess there’s a hundred and fifty plus. So there’s a lot that probably people were like. Oh my gosh. I never thought of that.
Oh, just so much stuff. Like, oh, my it’s everything, Josh. Just so many things, isn’t it? It’s like, Did we do the salary mapping right at the beginning? Did we advertise it right? Did we put the right words in the job advert? I mean, that’s quite a one thing. Job descriptions, job adverts, totally different documents.
It’s like I used the analogy if, one is hot dead bird and the other one is Kentucky fried chicken, which one would you rather have?
You know, which one do you wanna eat? How do you want it to be marketed to you? That’s the analogy, really, isn’t it? It’s hilarious.
JOSH TOLAN: I like that analogy. I’ve never heard that as well. Well, I have to commend you for on a sabbatical, putting together all of the pain that you felt from the past on the agency side and mapping that all out.
Normally, people would, you know, take it easy, relax, try not to think about those stressful things, but you went ahead and mapped all the pain in the hiring process. So I have to commend you for that.
Well, I love the way that you approach it. Right? Because it comes quite becomes quite, methodical. Right? It’s hey, here are all the areas for friction or points of failure. The way we build our hiring process as we account for all these things is to remove as many points of failure and as men and as much friction as possible.
Is it realistic to knock out all one hundred and fifty with the hiring design? Probably not. You know, in an ideal world, yes. But if you can, you know, knock out eighty percent of those.
I mean, that’s a huge step up because other employers aren’t even thinking about it in that way.
DEBBY CLEMENT: And I and I think the cost of failure there, the cost of rework, for example, where, you know, something goes wrong, you haven’t taken the intake brief in the right way, for example, what else have we got? Goodness, areas that we felt the pain on?
We haven’t pre-agreed what interview process you’re following. So you’re you’re building the interview process on the fly and then you lose candidates as a result, that that really hurts.
Gosh, so many different areas. I love it because it is process engineering with humans who they’ve got a brain of their own, haven’t they? So it’s kind of a combination between Rubik’s cubing and with human beings. And I don’t know.
I just adore the whole – like chasing the holy grail, isn’t it? Trying to find the secret source — Yep. — to not having a fire or
JOSH TOLNAL: And I think, look, what for you guys your hiring process and the way that you built it becomes a competitive advantage. And then getting that helps hiring managers get bought into it as well.
Right? Because all things equal about, you know, if you’re going against another employer to, you know, try and hire the same type of employee, all things equal comp benefits, everything. Right? And from a candidate’s perspective, let’s just say all those things are equal.
Your process becomes your competitive advantage, the speed in which you move with candidate experience in which you deliver. All those things become the advantage. And get the odds to tilt in your favor. And so it sounds like that’s really what you guys have leaned into is process is our advantage.
If we can get hiring managers bought into that, we can help tie that to a better hiring outcome and then more success in their job because of that better hiring outcome that comes by way of this process.
DEBBY CLEMENT: Yep. And we see that time and time again.
I mean, this week, for example, I had a wonderful moment this week. We hired somebody It was her first face-to-face interview that she’d had in five years, and she literally welled up in front of me and said, this has been the most amazing experience. I have ever experienced in recruitment terms. She said, from the moment I applied for the job – and we get it wrong as well, Josh. I mean, you know, we are not perfect. It pains me every time things go wrong, and a candidate has a poor experience. But for this particular, individual. It was an absolute joy. She was almost in tears. She just went, everyone’s so friendly. The office is amazing.
The way people have treated me during interview, and now she said to be receiving the offer from you. She said, I am just blown away and I am just so so happy, that I’ve actually landed this job. After, and we did, you know, we put through three rounds of interviews. So she went through the gammet with us.
And that’s really that’s a joy. I love to see that when people, you know – conversely, when we release people, if they’ve had a good experience, everyone’s been courteous, everyone’s been encouraging, has been they’ve allowed to be their authentic sales in the interview. You know, we tell them not to wear a suit. We just want you as the individual. Bring yourself, not your interview self.
When we release them, they come back. We’ve had, like, sent some testimonials over today and people have been really grateful. You know, I’ve learned about myself in this. You’ve given me something to go away with and think about. And you’ve helped me understand what it is I’m actually looking for because what I seen in what your reference day is where I wanna the kind of organization I wanna work with.
And we’ve had one lady this week. She’s had four other offers on the table, and she’s held out for us because of the experience she’s gone through. And that’s a competitive advantage. Let’s hope we can keep that.
JOSH TOLAN: Amazing. Well, I think you’re touching on another point that I wanted to discuss today. I was doing some homework before our discussion. I was on your LinkedIn.
I saw one of your posts. I think it was maybe from a month or two ago, and I’ll read the quote here. I wrote it down.
And you said “he” referencing your founder and CEO of Pax8, “passionately reconfirmed his position and curiosity for building the human-centric business of the future. That’s why I’m here and we can achieve this.” And — Yeah. — I love the post.
And I love the mentality that you are bringing to the hiring process. And we talk about a little bit, with this and leading up to this, podcast was really taking, the high empathy approach, from a culture standpoint of the company, but also in the hiring process. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
DEBBY CLEMENT: Yeah. So my ethos has always been, and I think this is even more so since COVID. The world has changed post-COVID.
A lot of the people in the marketplace or in the workplace today have seen their parents work for big dot com companies. They’ve seen them be thrown over the fence. They have a healthy cynicism for how long they stay with an organization, how well they’re treated with an organization.
And I take the view that we’re not we’re not building employees. We are building that community. To help people, come together. And John, I know, was always on the same page with me as far as that’s concerned, but he forgive me on losing my train of thought here.
He was basically saying that he didn’t want to build a cookie-cutter technology company that treats people the same as some companies have in the past. He wanted to be different. And that’s one of the reasons a lot of people join us is they want they don’t just wanna join a corporate organization. They wanna join a corporate a corporation that wants to be different from the dot coms, the the nineteen eighties.
We don’t want a cookie-cutter business model if you like.
So, it was interesting. We were on c quarterly business reviews recently and one of our investors was there, and he spent a whole, four days with us kind of unused unusual on your board member and your investors spend that amount of time with you. Because they’re seeing your dirty laundry effect typically when you’re in the the Watson or quarterly business review. So it’s pretty brave.
Buddy, basically, at dinner one night, said, he was blown away while what about what he’d seen, but he said there are risks, a high empathy company, Also, because you take so much care of people and you try to do the right things takes longer to release people where they’re not working out, and there is a cost to that.
So, that got us thinking really hard because we’re a ten-year-old company now but we’ve grown fast. So we’ve had a lot of startup mentality, and now we’re in the scale-up and primetime mentality, which means that we maybe can’t afford to hire as many growers, as we did before because if we’re running at such a hot pace, that we now need a level of experience coming into the business to keep pace and build things and because we grow so fast. We break things before we’ve even kind of fully optimized them.
So that’s an interesting situation, but again, you know, I spent time with him, this last quarter and I sat across the table from him and I went, so what do you think? How are we doing? Can we still scale this? Can we still keep that human-centricity?
And, he still steely-eyed? Pointed his finger and went, you bet we can. We ain’t losing it. We must keep our soul.
JOSH TOLAN: So yeah. And that’s what makes you guys who you are. Right? And it sounds like you’re weaving that throughout all aspects of the business.
And again, going back to the way that you’ve structured your hiring process to be a competitive advantage or culture and the way you treat people is a competitive advantage as well. Right? So, again, I think back to all those things where it’s like all else being equal, and with other companies and with other employers, you as a business have to think about what makes you unique.
And what are the things that you’re doing to stand out and what are the things that you’re doing to gain an advantage over all those other, you know, employers when it can’t just be about, well, we just keep lifting offers higher and higher, keep adding more benefits because there’s budget and things to think about as well.
And so it’s these things that you do with process or the way you treat people, that really stand out in the eyes of people that are either on the team now or want to join the team.
DEBBY CLEMENT: And I think a big part of that also is the way we articulate our purpose and our vision in the future because I don’t I don’t know. So many companies seem to I don’t know, not connect individuals’ jobs to the big mission of what they’re achieving. And help them translate that.
So, you know, in our case, it’s like we’re serving, you know, however many thousands of might of managed service providers who are serving end small businesses, you know, the scale of that is enormous. And what we’re doing is we’re giving we’re we’re putting up this platform that means millions of small businesses will be able to lift people out of poverty, because of the technology that they’re using through our platform. So, you know, that’s what’s meaningful work. And I think that’s being able to share that vision. The technology roadmap that Scott’s built is amazing.
You know, with the original founders that are still with us, Rob. Robailgrave, for example, he was CEO of one of the acquired companies. He’s now our global chief people officer, and that’s a CEO at the heart of the people, kind of unit and that’s quite rare. And it’s it was quite a brave move for him, but it’s really paying off because he’s influencing the board around people who are you know, our future, not just a human resource, if you like, which many companies treat them as.
JOSH TOLAN: Love it. Well, Debby, you guys are doing some awesome stuff. I really appreciate the time. It’s been great to learn more about everything going on at Pax8.
Couldn’t be more impressed with what you’ve done. You guys were, you know, ten or twenty people and scaling it up to almost two thousand people now today. And still being able to stay true to all the things that make the company unique along that journey. Every day, have to work on it. Not perfect. Still, you know, make mistakes by any means, but, you know, we try our hardest.
DEBBY CLEMENT: Yeah, let’s hope we can keep doing that, hey, but it’s been great to be here. Thank you, Thanks.
